tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post6083314402050283022..comments2024-03-20T07:14:40.521-07:00Comments on Black Woman Thinks...Religion, Politics, Race, Atheism and more...: 'I'm Going to Church'...The ReviewUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-15851614121852977482009-12-20T08:02:24.718-08:002009-12-20T08:02:24.718-08:00great post, you described what's happening in ...great post, you described what's happening in remarkably unbiased deatail. I used to be one of those in the congregation, and at the pulpit, but moved from church to church after realizing that the church might be a scam. It took me many years of discovering fraudulent pastor after pastor before I began to question the foundation. People can be manipulated into the strangest of places. Some are subtle like most faith communities, and some are more demanding like Charlie Manson's faith community where he was able to manipulate his women to do almost anything in the name of faith. My stomach is sick just to read the article, the years I wasted in illusion are regretful, but hopefully your post helps some people find the strength to question, and the courage to walk away.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01490741100292340735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-75909573943544289512009-12-11T20:26:05.912-08:002009-12-11T20:26:05.912-08:00Wonderful JESUS! Touch and agree in Jesus' hol...Wonderful JESUS! Touch and agree in Jesus' holy name! // Re: Mel Avila Alarilla said... Belief and faith are graces from God. We may not appreciate the things other people do since we do not feel what they are feeling. But the thing is, you have been exposed to the word of God and the Bible says that God's words will not return to Him empty handed but will accomplish the very purpose for which they were sent. You may ask yourself the question whether you have peace of mind, joy in your heart and that overflowing love for others that only God can give you. If you want these things and eternal life as well, then you can come to Jesus and be healed from hardness of heart and insensitivity to God's words. Thanks for the wonderful post. God bless you always.Whitneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12154127435243794121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-48688953079742414042009-06-12T17:19:03.678-07:002009-06-12T17:19:03.678-07:00Have you ever seen people shout? I am just as conf...Have you ever seen people shout? I am just as confused as you are! I haven't been to church since last Easter. I had work this Easter and I was very happy. Its hard to tell people you love half of the time that you cannot believe what they believe. Its a sore spot for me when people bring it up. I've been told by people my own age 19-21 not to curse and to come to church. God, died for your sins. I think the Bible was made for their time and not ours. I love your post by the way. I don't know many black atheist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-383807033309391462009-06-09T14:34:03.707-07:002009-06-09T14:34:03.707-07:00Great post, frightening that it still goes on. I h...Great post, frightening that it still goes on. I hope your relationship with your friends is maintained and you can all come to an understanding. That we can hear each other and avoid more holy war is what is important to me. I don't exactly agree with Mel or Lucy, but I really don't like the way Robert and Ralph responded. I understand the feelings behind it, but it just doesn't help. <br /><br />Now a story like MtnGirl's, that's excellent. I always wondered what would happen if someone didn't play along and fall back and say Amen! Kinda like the kids in Baptist churches, when the whole church sings and the kid is supposed to feel the spirit come in to them. Most kids figure out that they just say "yes" and they get to sit down, but every now and then one just shrugs their shoulders and says, "I don't feel nothin". <br /><br />I had a different church experience recently, love to hear your comments: http://winter60.blogspot.com/2009/06/build-caring-community.htmlLausten Northhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06784935133094816365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-47492238410221819942009-05-27T23:12:54.250-07:002009-05-27T23:12:54.250-07:00This post reminded me of an experience I had at a ...This post reminded me of an experience I had at a church I visited. I was about to head of to college, and was encouraged to go up front and have the minister pray for me. She put her hand on my head and starting saying things about lesbian spirits in the city where I was headed to college and she would emphasize certain points with a hard push on my forehead. By the time she finished, I'm sure we stood a good two feet away from where we started. That's when I realized I'd missed my cue. Perhaps all the people before me who were said to be slain by the spirit, were actually pushed down by the preacher! You might like Hank Hanegraaf's radio show or books. He's a Christian but atypically, deconstructs a lot of the "peculiar" stuff that gets passed off as "Christian". Counterfeit Revival and Christianity in Crisis are two of his books, and his radio show might be available at www.equip.orgMtnGrlhttp://mtngrlmusing.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-9674689362939969102009-05-27T21:43:14.623-07:002009-05-27T21:43:14.623-07:00Mel's comment is perfectly valid.
Just think of it...Mel's comment is perfectly valid.<br />Just think of it in a Julian Jaynes kind of way.<br /><br />Sans the floorshow - church can be a relaxing and productive experience.uglyblackjohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404995571276457138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-19791554595835346682009-05-25T15:08:27.409-07:002009-05-25T15:08:27.409-07:00I am so sorry for you. I would have been traumatiz...I am so sorry for you. I would have been traumatized too. I am a very spiritual person and consider my relationship with God wonderful but am very wary of organized religion for the reasons you just discussed.heidihttp://www.healthnutwannabeemom.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-68682654260086110012009-05-23T05:24:26.838-07:002009-05-23T05:24:26.838-07:00I can understand why you were traumatized by this ...I can understand why you were traumatized by this experience. As a child, I was once taken by a neighbor to a similar kind of church and it scared the pants off me! I hope you've since recovered!<br /><br />~My Autism InsightsAndreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539872190978119463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-89783864171835585702009-05-20T04:29:38.201-07:002009-05-20T04:29:38.201-07:00Lucy, this is BS. One should only be open to thing...Lucy, this is BS. One should only be open to things worth being open to, and disgusted by things one finds disgusting. Your comment about shutting oneself off from spiritual growth is itself disgusting. Ignorance, superstition, and deception of self and others do not constitute personal growth. Perhaps a different type of religious service would contain some elements of a positive experience, say music; however even there the association with backwardness and ignorance may be too much to take for those who have been subjected to excessive doses of same.Ralph Dumainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15886304779683587087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-23791166825687051642009-05-20T01:46:53.209-07:002009-05-20T01:46:53.209-07:00Gosh, I am a little hesitant about starting this c...Gosh, I am a little hesitant about starting this comment because I know how long my comments can sometimes get... :-)<br /><br />I've never attended a 'service' such as the one you've described although I have on mindless occasion caught something similar on tv while channel hopping. My response has been one of distrust but also one of curiosity. <br /><br />I am generally fascinated by the way people think, speak, act, make decisions etc. I often look for the underlying reasons why they do what they do because I notice that similar reasons motivate me too though not necessarily to do the same things.<br /><br />Anyway, what I am more keen to share in this comment is something of a documentary I watched the other night. It was about a group of 6 people who went on a 10 day retreat with a Sufi-inspired teacher. A few people in the group were Muslims. One in particular, a young lass called Aisyah (I think), was particularly resistant to the activities that were being run, one of which included singing/chanting the names of Allah. She found this and a number of other things so incongruous with her traditional Islamic practices. <br /><br />As I watched, I couldn't help feeling how much she was shutting herself off from new experiences that had the potential of helping her grow in her spirituality.<br /><br />Being a mentor and facilitator of workshops and retreats myself, I often invite people to do things they may not have done before because I have found these activities to be capable of triggering change. <br /><br />Very occasionally, a person might decline to participate. The thing that I do try to impress upon all who attend is this: You have brought yourself here so why not give yourself the freedom to experience fully whatever there is on offer. <br /><br />To get the most out of a new experience, to experience fully, one must be truly open. It really is a waste of time to be present while holding rigidly onto one's preconceptions and beliefs for they sake of having them confirmed or re-confirmed. At least, for the duration of the time spent there, there is far more to gain than to lose by remaining open. <br /><br />This was clearly evident with a couple of the other participants in the Sufi retreat, one a traditional Muslim and the other a young atheist scholar.Lucy Lopezhttp://lucylopezcontroversy.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-73024910197465304922009-05-19T19:33:10.047-07:002009-05-19T19:33:10.047-07:00hey Z, just passing thru hon :)hey Z, just passing thru hon :)Au Naturalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09465740518534204231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-26837940162018587612009-05-19T14:36:35.458-07:002009-05-19T14:36:35.458-07:00I don't know why you would subject yourself to thi...I don't know why you would subject yourself to this dumb shit. I didn't even have the stomach to read about it all the way through.<br /><br />Reminds me a line from an old Bob Dylan song: "There's no use in trying to deal with the dying . . . "Ralph Dumainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15886304779683587087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-77723551512427705542009-05-18T20:44:00.000-07:002009-05-18T20:44:00.000-07:00Completely unrelated to the post; just wanted to s...Completely unrelated to the post; just wanted to say thank you for the link! Noticed a few visitors dropping in from here.<br /><br />Will link you back later on (I can be a bit slow though, apologies in advance!). <br /><br />Stay out of church!Mr. Salarymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02874380653396343115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-51846895646496511212009-05-18T14:24:00.000-07:002009-05-18T14:24:00.000-07:00Hi Zee,
What a whacked-out, creepy experience--wh...Hi Zee,<br /><br />What a whacked-out, creepy experience--whoa, happy mother's day!! lol!<br /><br />Seriously, had I been in your place I could not have gotten out of there fast enough, and the sights and sounds of the naive and the desperate being so heartlessly conned would have depressed me for days, I'm sure.<br /><br />My experience with church-going has been rather different (at least in volume and tone) in that I was baptized in the Catholic faith. My grandmother, the family matriarch, was devoutly Catholic, a longtime member of the church choir, and very involved in church activities of various kinds. All of her children went to Catholic schools, though not as many of her grandchildren. <br /><br />Somehow I grew up skeptical of religious dogma in general and frequently questioning my grandmother's belief system. WHY did she believe, I always wanted to know, and HOW in the face of all the misery she'd known in her life, the deaths of beloved children, the cruel end of her marriage, all the crippling setbacks and disappointments? But for her that was somehow the point of her faith. It kept her going in the face of so much pain, or so she believed.<br /><br />These days I remember St. Thomas the Apostle Church with enduring fondness only because of the family gatherings there for mass, especially Christmas Eve Mass, which bewildered and fascinated me as a child--the huge, wonderfully gothic building and the lovely stained glass windows like something out of fairy-tale book, the truly beautiful singing (and the eager straining for any sight of my grandma in her majestic choir robes), the strange hypnotically sing-songy Latin chants, the ritualitstic kneeling in wooden pews and group prayer, the odd business of joining others in line to receive the sacrament, which I was assured was the body of Christ, and then... the trip to the neighborhood tavern directly afterward to drink and party! (We kiddies were given glasses of sparkling 7-Up, of course) Of course by the time I was in my middle teens I refused to participate any further in this bizarre nonsense and never really did again... but as a small child it all held a certain mystical comfort. I sometimes wonder how many perfectly grown-up people stay in the church, or return to the church with new children in tow, because of long-ago memories of family? <br /><br />BTW, I'm a newcomer to your blog (found my way here via Wrath's excellent essay on black atheism and his godlessandblack site) but have enjoyed reading your thoughts and insights. Bravo, Thinking Black Woman!Lorraine M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05182467192523615746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-52115239063457551542009-05-18T03:37:00.000-07:002009-05-18T03:37:00.000-07:00A wonderful post. Now I have to go back to read wh...A wonderful post. Now I have to go back to read what led up to your attending church. My first thought was, "Are you out of your mind?" FOr me one advantage of being an atheist is getting to sleep in on Sundays.<br /><br /> When I was in high school, I dated a guy who was my "dream" boyfriend, except for his family belonging to the Missionary Alliance Church. After a few dates, he invited me to attend a Youth for Christ rally with him. I told him I had to check with my parents ---who I knew would be fine with it, they being very religious --but I really wanted to check with a friend who had been to such a rally. Much of what you described ---calling people up front to be saved, lots of shouting, singing, hand-clapping, for example ---sounds like what she described to me. When I turned the guy down, honestly telling him I thought I'd embarrass him when I laughed out loud, that was the end of our grand romance.<br /><br />I wonder what makes Mel think only those who believe in his god can have peace of mind, joy in their hearts, and overflowing love for others. I'm an atheist, yet I feel all of those things, and I also know a few very mean-spirited Christians who probably don't even have hearts.C Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13053858627632648020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-29125594605536044422009-05-17T15:01:00.000-07:002009-05-17T15:01:00.000-07:00Hi Zee,
I'm so glad you stopped by my site.
Thi...Hi Zee,<br />I'm so glad you stopped by my site. <br /><br />This post was so well done. I actually felt a bit of panic!<br /><br />I'm glad I have found your site.<br /><br />~Ann AgainAnn Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06018952741830928799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-71774996212007612562009-05-17T02:12:00.000-07:002009-05-17T02:12:00.000-07:00Wow, the first comment here is ridiculous. I, too...Wow, the first comment here is ridiculous. I, too, am sorry that you receive this close-minded bullshit. I get emails like that all the time--Pretty much any time I put up a post about how I reject the supernatural and religion and the whole "church experience." I also cannot get over the fact that everyone believes that their church is the one to go to--That their church is the church that will open your eyes and let you see god again. It's ridiculousness. Atheism is something that a believer will just not ever understand and it's the same with atheists not being able to understand believers, but for a different reason--Most of us were raised in religious families. Most of us attended church and it is for that reason that we reject it. Cannot wait for your commentary.Hollyhttp://menstrualpoetry.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-76282712479642663312009-05-15T12:33:00.000-07:002009-05-15T12:33:00.000-07:00Yeah, I grew up in a church with some pretty fanat...Yeah, I grew up in a church with some pretty fanatical stuff. The theatrics weren't quite the same, but it got the point across. My parents aren't very skeptical thinkers, and my dad especially has a difficult time dealing with reality. I've stopped talking to him altogether, only because it's impossible to get beyond simple concepts. We think he might be mildly autistic, or have aspergers. Unfortunately, religion tends to prey on precisely those people who are already not rooted in reality.Janellenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-1719118175464394492009-05-14T16:53:00.000-07:002009-05-14T16:53:00.000-07:00Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - heehee! I...Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster - heehee! I want a FSM t-shirt!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-40852175114721352712009-05-14T02:46:00.000-07:002009-05-14T02:46:00.000-07:00I have evidence that "His Noodles" - The Flying Sp...I have evidence that "His Noodles" - The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists: here: http://reducing-crimes.blogspot.com/2009/05/church-of-flying-spaghetti-monster.html<br /><br />All bow and fight the anti-pastaInnithttp://reducing-crimes.blogspot.com/2009/05/church-of-flying-spaghetti-monster.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-18007266011596307092009-05-14T00:12:00.000-07:002009-05-14T00:12:00.000-07:00Because the "con" - the indoctrination of children...Because the "con" - the indoctrination of children not to question the existence of their God "who always needs more of their money - no matter how all powerful he is and poor and feeble they are" - is cruel then I advocate expanding the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster ...perhaps parody will help break the "con" and let Christians and other sheeple try to argue that there is more evidence for the existence of their God than there is for the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Here is the link to – its worth a visit: http://www.venganza.org/ Mad of course – but that is the point.Bent Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16187406508249705295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-49266627532762506812009-05-13T22:48:00.000-07:002009-05-13T22:48:00.000-07:00wowww.. paying for blessings on earth. such a rack...wowww.. paying for blessings on earth. such a racket in the name of the creator.<br /><br />Zee, I understand your distaste for the theatrics. I myself think it's deplorable that people are preyed upon for their faith.<br /><br />it's just plain wrong.<br />Great Post, as always.EntrePod - Mama ASIDhttp://pod313.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-49516773875527673642009-05-13T20:10:00.000-07:002009-05-13T20:10:00.000-07:00wow I see why u were traumatized! It pretty much ...wow I see why u were traumatized! It pretty much confirmed what you already knew/felt/suspected about churchAu Naturalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09465740518534204231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-76135812681074413712009-05-13T17:28:00.000-07:002009-05-13T17:28:00.000-07:00Thank you for the post Zee...many of your readers ...Thank you for the post Zee...many of your readers empathize with you completely. However, I feel compelled to address Mel's comment. It's probably a waste of time...but I'll try. You see brother Mel, there is probably no amount of evidence that would make you question your belief. On the other hand people like myself that doubt the existence of any god or gods, would probably change our minds if we discovered evidence to support the claims of believers. Believers speak of faith and faith is not evidence. Believers offer their "holy" books but that is not evidence either. If I claimed to be a surgeon Mel and I persuaded you to come to my office for a consultation and while you were in the waiting room you noticed that all of my posted diplomas and certifications were from universities that shared my name, i.e., Dr. Robert Roe was a graduate of Robert Roe University, I think you'd raise more than a skeptical eyebrow. Most rational people require independent verifiable evidence whenever people make claims. You cannot use the bible as its own source of verification. A few questions...When you speak of "God" which god are you referring to? You must be aware of the other "Gods" that are revered and worshiped by other people. Are these folks worshiping the "wrong" god and consulting the wrong text? Look, I know that this is a Kobayashi Maru scenario Mel and the truth is I don't want to "win." All I would like to know is can folks like you that believe stop talking about what you don't know as though you do? Whatever created the cosmos, if it is a "who" and not a "what" or a process, does not and cannot need imperfect, finite human sales people. Remember, "he" is all powerful and "he"did not need any of you to set up the cosmos. Why would he need you to do this most important of all works? Perhaps it is you that needs you. Go in peace, always.1skepticalbrotherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03176681260905762682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-588572344099937920.post-70442492405820815542009-05-13T16:57:00.000-07:002009-05-13T16:57:00.000-07:00BWT, thanks for your post. I was brought up in thi...BWT, thanks for your post. I was brought up in this kind of church. These churches talk a lot about grace and faith and love. However the reality is fear, self-righteousness and gullibility. <br /><br />Mr Alarilla, my family and I have known far more peace, joy and love far from the prescribed kind the church offers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com